I am not sure if you noticed this or not, but there is a lack of strong, intelligent women in F451. Mildred is an idiot; Mrs. Bowles and Mrs. Phelps are morons; Mrs. Hudson sets herself on fire (risking the impression that one would think she is crazy); and Clarisse -the only real hope for women in the novel- is killed off.
This got me to thinking. The novel takes place in the year 2400, waaaay in the future. Shouldn't we have worked all this iniquity out already? Shouldn't there be equality between men and women? Why does it have to be that the most intelligent characters (Faber and Beatty) are men? Why do the idiots have to be women or killed off in the first fourth of the book?
How do you think the story would change if Faber was a woman? Montag? Beatty?
(Gentlemen: you had better be careful here...)
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51 comments:
seriously come on now! Is there a reason for women not being smart? I don't know but I think it's kind of funny really truly and honestyl. I mean come on whats so bad about women just being there? I know but I figured I'd have a bunch of you women start yelling about your rights.
I believe feminism has already come full circle. By the year 2400, it wouldn't suprise me if women have regressed back into complete idiots.
It's difficult for me to see Beatty as a female; he's such a frigging man. But she-Montag would be an interesting spin on the story. Certainly s/he would have the odds doubly stacked against him/her, and would be losing more (the very fact that s/he became a fireman) by trying to change things.
ok the veiw point of women not have a strong point in the book is one because the time the book awas actually writen. the book is placed in 2400 but when it was write people really didn't think that these days women would be so far ahead. sencond i think that haveing the women in the story "dumb" just shows more of how the society is in the book. i don't think that the book is pickig on women in general i think that book is just makeing the society like that and it just so happens that the women in the book right now don't have the smarts. maybe the guy who wrote it might have been sexist but it was the day and age. so can you really blame him?
i am smarter than amy and cindy
In the story the fact that there are no strong women in the novel is very intreagueing to me too... I totally agree with the fact that it is rediculious... I belive that the reason in the
book that there isn't any strong women is because that is the way that they made their society that is part of the way that they say that you have to live your life... It is part of their plan because in the novel they do away with all the books, they just don't know that women have come so far in society that they are still going to be under the sterotypical women figure... So i don't belive that it was ment to be that women are inferrior... But if you ask me i belive that is is BS that there are no strong women in the novel!
Men are definatly not smarter then women, sorry josh. I think that if faber or montag were women it would have made the book better and more interesting. :)
Josh i dont know what you are talking about cindy and I are so much smarter then you!! :) :)
If fabber and Montag were woman the story would be WAY better! If all the firemen were firewomen and the men burned themselves and were idiots and morons I would Love it. But you did make a good point, there should be a equality between men and women so far into the future.
WELL I DO NOT AGREE WITH CINDY LOVE CUZ HE IS A STUPID BUTTFACE N DONT REALLY LOVE ME. Men just are cry babies and feel that they have to be proven to be smarter than women hence the male writer writing about men being SO smart. Men and women are pretty euqal in intelligence its just women are smarter about certain things than men are and vice versa. Since men are such cry babies and alwayz down on themselves if it were two women in the book a do not think it would have had as many readers.
A man wrote the book and didn't wrie any strong women roles in it. Is that really that surprising?
Does it not sound like another book we're all familliar with??
Come on now of course the book would be so much different if the main characters were women. This is because women aren't as tyrannical (sp?) as men are. If Faber was a woman then that character would probably be braver than the character of Faber as a man. She probably would have been killed already or would have had her house burnt down. I think that the main reason women aren't main characters in this novel is because the author, and I agree, felt that women are too unpredictable while men on the other hand conform much more easier. I think the reason for this is because men are afraid of being looked at as weak in certain cases. I'm sure if Montag and Beatty were both women this story would be much more emotional.
Then there almost only would have been women in this book... not that thats a bad thing - would just have developed another perspective
Bama, you hit the nail on the head. It's as simple as that.
well now and you people say that ur not sexist? yeah ok there ladies. Women it is proven are smarter then men but that is on like book smarts men have more common sense and so if the main carachcters were women then she would die three minutes into it. take that CLN 123! HA MUUHHHAAAAAAA!
yesss gentlemen be careful. you geist, being a feminist, why are we reading this book then?!?!?! woman dont have any roll in this book mildred is an idiot who talkes to tv's. and theres only two other women who dont even come into to the book until later and dont have a big part in it. women are better than men!!!
This book makes women look like complete idiots. Women are just as smart or smarter than most men. We won't even be here in 2400. So it's not our fault that by then they're going to be dumb. I think that women are getting better in the society today.
if faber and montag would be woman it would go an other way - Montag would propably not kill Beatty (oh by the way - why is the evil person a men - why not a woman????? we should talk about that!!!)
i think in the book woman are equal to the men (even if i didnt heard of a firewoman) - for example; they dont have the responsibilitys the woman back in the day had: like taking care of the household and the chidlren.
it sucks that all the women are either crazy or die in the book but common a guy wrote it. what do you expect. maybe he just got divorced and thought his wife was crazy and wish she was dead?
I think women are better than men. i love women all of them big small tall short.no matter what race. i love them all
the feminism in this book is horriable. the womsn should be arguing to get the books back to not just become stupid. if montag would be a woman it would be a better story because women can be firefighters and would be fighting to get their books back. and if beatty wasy a woman it would be really interesting story.
ok elven pirate,
the only reason they would die is because they are brave and it would be a noble death.
women are more emotional.
it would be beautiful to die for what you believe in,instead of being empty and not feeling for anone or anything.
well said bama but if it was me in that situation then I wouldn't have worried about what will happen if I do this or that I would straight up start killing firemen left and right let's pirate the crap out of this man come on you Viking hellion
I disagree I think that Clarisse even tho she died represented intelligent wemon and i believe that there will never be equality becuse some people are to ignerent and there will always be people that think they are better then others and the book was also writtin in the 50s and men and wemon were less equal back then. I think that it wouldent change the book much if montage or Beatty was a woman becuase they would still be the same character it doesent matter if there man or woman.
I dont think When Ray wrote the book he intended to make women weak. That wasnt my impression at all in the least. I think they were just people in the situations that Montag faced. I mean look around now, Women invite over their girlfriends for company and Chit chat. In the novel They were just doing what regular house wives of today do, and the woman of the 50's did.
killing clarisse off was an imporant part of the story that made Montag think. it made him want to find more answers and wonder why people who were thinking are being killed and why knowlage of why not how is a "bad" thing. Gender dosent have anything to do with the book. If clarisse was a man, the results would have still been the same. He would have been dreamer just like the female version.
montag's gendar is good the way it is. mildred's character is in the home where she can drown herself out of reality. Montag is the character who is simply provideing, After all the women dont care about their husbands. and while montag is provideing it sets him in the perfect postion to wonder why he's burning books...
Fabers gendar switch? he'd be the same. Women and men both have fear and hide. Nether is stronger or weeker. We have the same flaws.
Beatty's gendar, of a woman wouldnt alterate it in the least. besides, I knew a girl who was a complete scarey psyco chick...
Gendar in this book means nothing.
i think that in this novel, women are unintellegent because the society has changed so much to eliminate problems that everyone justs watchs tv and listens to music. this dumbs everyone down but if you noticed no women in the story have jobs, the men go off to work which would give them more experiences that they can reflect on and possibly think. whereas women are siting at home where they can't expirence anything that would cause them to think. Montag didn't start thinking untill the woman set herself on fire, if a woman was a fireman she would have probably started to think as well if she expirenced something un pleasurable.
i believe he only reasoning for these "men" being the stars of the novel is because it has to do with firemen. if it was something else, like sales or teachers or almost anything else then it would be the women getting the props for being so smart. Women have really come far in society. thye have proven themselves and believe that they should get more credit instead of looking down on their coming so far in life.
I'm not sure why it potrays men as being smarter then the women.I think since men think they have to have more control then women in this book they pretty much brain washed the women to be like robots in a sense that they don't think for themselves at all. Clarisse sees right through the brain washing and is her own person which is how everyone should be today. But if you think about it there are a lot people who are sort of brain washed in to following what other people are doing instead of making their own paths in life.If the main characters in this book were women it would be completley different.Neither men or women are smarter then eachother.A female can do anything a man can do if she puts her mind to it.Men and women just think completley differently.
okay then you'll notice two things first is that this book was written in a time where women were thought of as lesser persons and also that if the book was all about women then the book would be ten times as long because then you are required to add in feelings and emotion with depth thereby leading to the end of this novel or rather it never having begun
wait...intelligent women....i dont comply my intelligence to oxymorons....
I don't think that the story would change really that much accept for that there would be more women. I also don't think it would change at all because the author wanted to get a certain point across so I don't think it would matter to him if Montag, Faber or Beatty were women.
I don't think that there will ever be complete equality between men and women even in the future.To many people they believe that men are smarter and are more dominant.So that is probably why the men are the main parts.The women to most people are not smart because of the way we were brought up.Back in the older days women were not as smart as men and this belief i still being held today even though it is proven more women are going to college and being more successful then men.So maybe someday people will become to believe women are just as smart.but it make take awhile.maybe even not even till after 2400.
since the beginning of time men have always been smarter then women. it has always been this way but no one has said it out loud except in this book. Men will forever and always be better and smarter then women.
since the beginning of time men have always been smarter then women. it has always been this way but no one has said it out loud except in this book. Men will forever and always be better and smarter then women.
Is there actually a % that tells you which gender is smarter? Because i know that men are way smarter...n stuff
I feel that the bokk F451 def. underestimates the female gender, however this is nothing new. Women have been looked down upon for years. It is true that men and women have had very different roles since the beginnning of history, but it is hard to say which is the "better" sex. Men have been known to go out in search for food and work, while women stay safetly at home with children and prepare meals. This isn't too bad of a lifestyle if you ask me, however in F451, the book makes absolutely no practical use of women. Women have come to degrade themselves by making themselves objects more than beings. This book reminded me of two movies where women are degraded in the future. Idiocracy is one movie which is considerably closse to this book in some regeards. I suggest this movie to those who have enjoyed F451, it is a comedy but most of it is fairly stupid humor. getting back to my point, the movie shows the only purpose of woman as to satisfy a man's needs through purely pleasurable experiences. (If you know what I mean) The woman sell themselves as an occupation and places like starbucks have turned into whore houses with Lattes meaning something other than a drink. The other movie ( I cannot recall the name of unfortunatly) is about the end of the human race because sex has become out of pure pleasure. in the book F451, Mildred only watches TV and ODs, she does not need to prepare meals because lets face it, fast food is so easily available that she is not needed to cook, she does not have children that are needed to look after, she can not even keep her husband company seeing as she doesn't even remember when they met let alone the fact they are not in love and she ccould care less about what happens to him. Woman are seen as completely pointless. Their only purpose to produce being taken for granted could end in extinction, so maybe a more productive role for women will keep them in a better role, if not it is likely that they will turn lazy and possibly meaningless.
i think if faber was a woman montag wouldnt have listened to her.
The basis of this isn't that 1 sex (male or female) is smarter than the other.That will never be determined. However, in the past and even still in today's society men have held a larger role of power. Just because the females in this book dont all act smart doesn't mean women in the future wont be smart. If you took a select few females from the senior class this year there's a chance 3 of them will be un-intelligent, just like Mildred and her two friends. Whereas, you might get some smart ones as well. These women just fit the role better. How many guys do you know that watch soaps all day?..thats these ladies do. Most guys are Firemen. So the firemen are guys. The English teacher thing could go either way (for faber) but I think having him as a guys expresses the point of him being a "mole" better because as a society we expect girls to not do the dirty work, when the guys should be..so it allows that point to hit home even harder having Faber a guy.
i agree wit cindy love haha cmon cindy n amy u guys think ur smarter than josh... nice try ha i got josh's bak on this 1 lol
i agree wit cindy love haha cmon cindy n amy u guys think ur smarter than josh... nice try ha i got josh's bak on this 1 lol in this story i feel that men r superior to women cuz a man wrote it and if montag was a women the story wouldnt be so hardcore with burning people and stuff
In general I feel that most women are more sensitive than men are. Although not all women are "push overs" they usually allow domineering men run all over them. If Montag, Faber, and Beatty were women in the story, the entire plot would be changed. Women characters wouldn't be as headstrong and against the rules.
If montag was a girl i think the story would be completly diffrent. i think a girl would make diffrent choices hten a man would thats why the story would be diffrent if all the men where women in the story.
i think that it will be different and it would be funny as well.
i think that some guy are smart and some are dumb but girls are smart on clothes and make up and hair and desgining room
hey someone has to be the stupid ones in the book y not the women j/k but seriously think about it a guy wrote the book so he is gonna make the guys the smarter ones
If the main characters were female I don't think that the story would change too much. There would be a heck of a lot more crying involved. Its a fact that women cry more than men. Anyways its written by a guy thats why all the smart main characters are men and the dumb ones are women. ttyl
I absolutly 100% agree with "boy u stank take a bath"
Salintine will will be defeted on the feild of battle and it will be me that drives in the killing blow. Don't ever insult my friends again!!!!!!
salinitine or how ever you spell ur name ur a Nazi! That's right i said it!
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